JG
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jasongrow |
Road details -- a step in the right direction |
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It's a start -- and our legislators, both Sen. Tarr and Rep. Verga, should be encouraged to support Baddour's effort -- write em, email em or call
em... this is the first time in too long that a state legislator has had the gumption to even begin the process of tackling this issue.
JG
Last Edited By: jasongrow 03/28/08 02:19 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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jasongrow |
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It's a start -- and our legislators, both Sen. Tarr and Rep. Verga, should be encouraged to support Baddour's effort -- write em, email em or call
em... this is the first time in too long that a state legislator has had the gumption to even begin the process of tackling this issue. JG
Baddour, others seek to curb police details at some work sites By Edward Mason Staff writer BOSTON - Using more civilian details at work sites is among cost-saving measures unveiled by Beacon Hill leaders yesterday to cope with the costs of maintaining the state's roads, bridges and public transit system. Under the proposal, which originated in the state Senate, Massachusetts would for the first time regulate the use of police details at public works sites, spelling out when civilian flagmen could be used. Sen. Steven Baddour, D-Methuen, co-chairman of the Legislature's Transportation Committee, is the Senate point man for the bill. At a Statehouse press conference, he said the limits on police details were just a start, as the state looks for ways to curb spending. "Today is the first step," Baddour said. Last year, the Transportation Finance Commission, an independent panel appointed by former Gov. Mitt Romney in 2004, estimated the police monopoly on details would cost the state $100 million over 20 years. It's unclear how much police details cost cities and towns. About 4.5 percent of the total cost of the Massachusetts Highway Department's construction projects goes to pay for police details. While police details are not required at public construction sites, they are used as a matter of long-standing practice, Baddour said. The Senate plan, Baddour said, would "untie the hands of municipal officials" who feel they must use police. Opening up police details to flagmen is a hot-button issue, as police seek to protect a lucrative side job while cities and towns and state officials look for ways to save money. In recognition of the controversial nature of the plan, Baddour was quick to add: "We're not eliminating police details." Andover Town Manager Reginald "Buzz" Stapczynski welcomed the plan. Police are paid time-and-a-half for details. While useful at road sites, because of their ability to arrest people and the respect they command, Stapczynski said police details have a cost. "There's a cost associated with police being on road jobs and outside details," Stapczynski said. "This could give us flexibility in negotiating future contacts and paid details." Haverhill Patrolman Association President Steve Iannalfo said he encouraged lawmakers to spell out where police and flagmen are appropriate - because he believes state officials will eventually determine police are superior to flagmen. Asked if protecting pay was an issue, Iannalfo said it was not. "It's about a public safety issue, " he said. Making it easier for civilian flagmen to replace police was one of several measures rolled out yesterday to save money. Lawmakers also proposed requiring new Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority hires to contribute to their health care costs as retirees. Currently, they pay nothing. The Transportation Finance Commission estimated it would cost the state between $15 billion and $20 billion over the next 20 years just to maintain the state's existing transportation infrastructure. Recommendations for an 11.5 cent gas tax hike and tolls on major highways were not included. Gov. Deval Patrick, who backs the Senate plan, said lawmakers must find savings first. "We should do it first before we go to the public for broad-based tax revenue," Patrick said. The measure, which Senate lawmakers will attach to a $4.8 billion transportation borrowing bill, also has the support of House Speaker Salvatore DiMasi, and Senate President Therese Murray, which Baddour said means it should pass. But Rep. Bradley Jones Jr., R-North Reading, said that other than police details and health care cost controls, the Senate plan is terribly vague. If anything, Jones said, there's too much studying. For instance, there's language to require MassHighway to track its cash flow, and require the state highway agency to study the best practices of other states. And the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority would evaluate switching from manual to electronic toll collections. "It's akin to saying, you're house is on fire but before you do anything you have to evaluate what equipment you need," Jones said. "Before you do that, the house is gone. It's very frustrating." And Democrats aren't sure they're on board. Rep. Theodore Speliotis, D-Danvers, who for public safety reasons would rather see police at construction sites, said he expects police unions to flex their muscle in opposition. "It's going to be very difficult to get through the Legislature," Speliotis said. Edward Mason may be contacted at emson@gloucestertimes.com. |
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MMickkeYY |
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No way...DOA!
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jasongrow |
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Only if people don't let them know that it's time to end the practice -- all it takes is an email or a phone call to register an opinion.
jg |
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oldhippie01930 |
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It's about friggin' time!
"im never get sad im a boozer" - mya crakstinks
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Mothership |
Hey Jason Grow | ||
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JG, I saw this subject on the news last night and could not believe my ears! I had to laugh especially after our most recent exchange on the
subject. YOU, Mr. Councillor may actually see a change in Police Details in your "life time"! It may not be your political "life
time" but IT has begun. You can at least feel good about that since you have been so outspoken on the subject.
I personally, am not saying I am for or against ALL road details especially on my dime. I am certainly not FOR taking meals off anyone's dinner plates, (even though it is technically coming out of my own pocket; hence, MY dinner plate), and I respect Public Safety employees immensely for the job that they (most) do. That is why I am willing to not fight against it...today. **People on this board are bragging about their $50 - $100 per weekend night dinners EVERY WEEK and then they complain about this. Sorry, I think it all stinks but there is NEED versus WANT. I don't see a NEED for $70+ dinners & booze but I DO see a NEED for Fire Stations open and Police being paid a fair wage, if "details" do it for them, then more power to them.** At least our own financial problems with Gloucester's "small town" politics is becoming front and center stage for the entire Commonwealth. Some detail
jobs look lame and I will admit that but I also believe that there are some safety issues surrounding some details. You throw the baby out with the
bathwater.
I for one will not be calling. I think it should be a win-win for all. I am not convinced without a fairly negotiated contract to offset the loss in pay that many will take and I believe (know) I am in the minority here on this issue. Care not say I. What the heck, no one likes me anyway. I am not here to be liked, that's what politicians are for.
I commend you on your timing and fortitude on the issue even if I
can't go along with it in light of other issues that people refuse to look at. Public Safety and Education (unless it comes from the top
administrators down) I am NOT for cutting. Period...for now.
JG, What State action can override a contract negotiated deal with Municipal police? Does it just pave (no pun intended ) the way for ease in future negotiations? A union negotiated contract agreement
is binding until it is renegotiated is that not true?
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researchmajor |
Question For Grow | ||
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Jason, I have mixed emotions about details in Massachusetts, first I don't feel the cities and towns pay their police officers enough money. And if
details are taken away they all should get a pay raise. You wouldn't want your salary cut. So answer this,
If you feel so STRONGLY about getting rid of details you must have strong facts on how the city will save money, given the prevailing wage statute along with pay for an employees workers comp and insurance how will a flagman be cheaper. I like the idea of having cops on the street whether they are directing traffic or not they are their to respond to emergency's. If I am not mistaken most details are paid by Verizon, Keyspan, National Grid. The city tacks on 10% and make money on the detail, those utilities companies pay the bill. Yes I understand the customers who pay there monthly utility bills eventually pay for it but do you really think your utility bills will go down because details are eliminated! NO! Therefore at this time I would rather see our own police officers keep the money because they are vastly underpaid instead of Keyspan, Verizon, National Grid owners and stock holders get the money. Why hurt our own? Show me how a Flagman will save money, how much will they earn will prevailing wage, tack on insurance, workers comp and possibly medical insurance plus sick and vacation time. Plus where are these flagmen coming from, if the utility companies are forced to hire another man of their own to direct traffic don't you think after all there compensation the utility companies will tack on more money to make money on them. I respectfully don't think you know what you are talking about on this one, I think you are making a "knee-jerk" decision with no plan or facts behind it! |
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ckcaney |
gimme a break | ||
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"I don't feel the cities and towns pay their police officers enough money"
Have you seen the top city earner's list? Join the majority and get these cops off details! "Road details in Gloucester are lucrative for police, who regularly dominate the top 10 of the city's highest earners each year." -GDT. |
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Gang of One |
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'Vastly underpaid'??? How much should they be getting, then?
There would be a lot less aggro and bad feelings if at least the absurd 'minimum hours' were scrapped. |
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Island Annie |
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Gang of One wrote: Agreed.
"How deadly stupid we are that we can study history and live through what we live through, and complacently
allow the same causes to put us through the same thing again!"
-Eleanor Roosevelt, 1934 |
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ckcaney |
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Yes, the overtime deals and detail monies are included in those figures.
"If the overtime disappeared, the standard of living would go way, way down. " I disagree, the police make a nice base pay too. I was in NH this weekend and went by a site manned by a "flagman", no reason why we shouldn't join the majority and being doing the same here in MA. |
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fishman54 |
road details | ||
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so you think that making 44,000 dollars a year is fair for what they do. so lets see you quit your jobs for 44,000 dollars to do what they do. i dont think you
guys have the balls to do there job. how come no one complains about the perks that the major utility companies have. i was told that if they work past 2 or 3
in the morning that they get the next day off with pay and there are many other perks just like it.
and i almost forgot. JG how about you go back to california with all the rest of the yuppies. |
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ckcaney |
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If anyone is unhappy with the amount of their paycheck, they're free to find new jobs. It's that simple.
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researchmajor |
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I meant their base paid is vastly underpaid, $44,000.00 a year for working nights, weekends, holidays, crazy hours, and putting their lives on the line
everyday, dealing with bull shit none of us want to deal with.....no I don't think that is alot of money..........yes the top earners in the city are
Police Officers but I am sure they put in hours around the clock to make that, they are not sitting home making that money, how come details bother you but the
several asst superintendents that work 8 months a year making 100k a year is OK?
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mya crakstinks |
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how manny cops been killed on duty in gloucester?
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drinkycrow |
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researchmajor wrote: Sounds like my work hours. I make just about that. Cant afford a boat though.
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flounda |
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how manny cops been killed on duty in gloucester?
------------------------------------------- If a few get knocked off, will that satisfy your requirements for a decent wage. Once again you prove what an asshole you really are. |
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MMickkeYY |
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The arguments presented here in favor of details is at best convoluted...more likely disingenuous.
the fact cops are paid by taxes seems to be forgotten. the fact cops become cops of their own free will.. is forgotten. details have nothing to do with public safety and everything to do with easy money. comparing cop pay to utility workers? proves nothing other than jealousy of a neighbor! Obviously ms research is related to a police officer....But it's not personal...if you choose to work on the public teet then you need to realize theres a limit to the abuse taxpayers will take. Just please don't start talking abouit 9/11! |
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Thong Extractor |
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$44K is for an entry level position. How much should a new patrolman earn? A sargeant's base is up around $58K and a LT well over $60K. In addition there is other compensation that raises all of those levels not including the lucrative "pocket pool" contract. |
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flounda |
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how come details bother you but the several asst superintendents that work 8 months a year making 100k a year is OK?
------------------------------------------------ Good question. How about giving $340000 in pothole money for a retirement incentive for teachers ( $17,000 each) and then those teachers coming back to work at double the pay of a regular substitute. So much for " we need it for the kids". |
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Roxie |
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Without getting into what a police officer makes ..... a coupla things.
For all you in favor of details filled exclusively by police in the interest of public safety .... how is it that using flagmen works in every single other state? I'm not in favor of going strictly flagmen ... I do think there are locations and projects where the public is better served by having a copy on duty. But we have all seen those times where certainly a flagman would suffice. I've also seen projects where I thought there should be more police on duty ..... where a long stretch of road is under construction and there is just one cop on each end, out of each other's view. Many states have a combination police/flagmen policy. What about those times when there is need for a detail and no one is available or wants to take it? The work goes on anyway, doesn't it? That's safe. Put flagmen on those low-risk sites and get more cops on the ones where they are really needed. And fix that minimum hours/double dipping thing. Prevailing wage ... one of my favorite topics. Prevailing wage rates only apply to fed/state/muni contracts. Utilities and contractors on private job sites don't pay prevailing wages. If flagmen are allowed for public contracts, a prevailing wage class will be created ... but I don't hold much hope that flagmen will save the public that much in the end. Massachusetts and New York have the ..... drum roll ..... highest prevailing wage rates in the country. |
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